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I

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welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world

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with me George Galloway and me gatri the

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tor's one labor was wiped out the far

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right came second and two left of Labor

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parties Rose significantly those are the

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results in the general election in my

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home country of the Netherlands but they

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don't tell the whole story The Dutch

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Tory party like Mrs ster in the 1980s

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partially suppressed the vote of the far

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right by internalizing much of their

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rhetoric and some of their politics but

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K wers increased his presence in

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Parliament from 12 seats to 19 and

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that's somehow supposed to be a cause

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for celebration joining us as he

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promised when he was last year is

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specialist in European politics Dr

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Russell Foster from King's College

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London Dr Russell thank thanks for

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joining us give us the headline uh G

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vilder rose from 12 to 19 he's now the

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second biggest Parliament uh party uh

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should we be celebrating uh I don't

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think that this is any reason for a

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cause for celebration whatsoever the

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international press have been uh keeping

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a very close eye on the Dutch electoral

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campaign because this is the year of

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Elections and the year that will decide

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the fate of the union now the uh first

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in the three sequence of Elections were

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the Dutch normally uh the international

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press would not be particularly

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concerned about electoral politics in uh

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a country like the Netherlands tell me

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about it but uh but as a consequence of

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what happened last year uh there's been

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a lot of emphasis on it now during the

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campaign there was a lot of fear that

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vas was going to ride in on this

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populist tidal wave vaguely similar to

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uh brexit to Trump and to uh the

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referendum in Italy back in December

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this initially doesn't seem to have

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happened so we opened uh the newspapers

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or checked online this morning to find

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that Rutter is uh pronouncing that this

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is uh a great victory that the Dutch

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people have stopped the populist tide

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that they've had enough of the wrong

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sort of populism this is a very very bad

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way to interpret what's happened the two

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major parties uh two major establishment

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parties in the Netherlands the

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conservatives and the labor movement

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have both lost support the labor

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movement has been eviscerated and it

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will take a very long time for them to

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make a comeback who has made gains are

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the anti-establishment or at least

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outside of the establishment parties the

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green left uh the party for freedom and

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a couple of others which have gained

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seats now these don't share the same

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political uh platform but they are

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united and that they are not the

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establishment parties now Rutter's claim

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that uh the Dutch people have gone

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against populism is clearly not true now

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the second biggest party in the

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government is going to be vilder payv in

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places like Rotterdam it is the dominant

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party that they won most of the seats so

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we've seen a fundamental shift in Dutch

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politics in the last 36 hours from the

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old establishment movements towards uh

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parties which are outside of the uh of

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the old click so to interpret uh the

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recent Dutch election as support for

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liberalism support for the status quo is

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simply not the way uh that we're seeing

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developments in the Netherlands what

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about the point we made in the

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introduction that one of the reasons why

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Rota will continue as prime minister is

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that he began to ape many of the uh

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tropes and rhetoric of vildor himself

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absolutely this is something that we're

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seeing in France in Germany we saw it

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last year in the United Kingdom and most

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prominently we've just seen it with

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Rutter taking the language and the and

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the themes of builders's movement and

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appropriating them for himself not only

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all the mainstream exactly that matter

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PR you'll recall around around a month

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ago uh Ruta took out a full page advert

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in most of the uh Dutch newspapers which

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effectively stated if you don't like it

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here then leave now this is something

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that would have been unimaginable for a

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mainstream party to do back in say the

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2011 elections but uh but now we're

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seeing uh perhaps a similar symptom to

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what we've seen with the mainstream

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parties in the United States and in

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other European countries where a fear of

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bleeding away supporters to

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anti-establishment parties means that

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the ruling establishment groups are

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appropriating the same language so to

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see this as some sort of Victory against

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populism is quite myopic because it is a

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victory of parties who are offering a

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wed down version of the same thing that

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vilda is offering so you see that as

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same as populism there

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it's not against populism precisely so

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it's it's in no way a vote against

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fielders absolutely not uh we should no

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tactical voting here well I don't know

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uh to the extent the Tactical voting has

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occurred in the Netherlands with their

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Byzantine structure of so many different

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parties and candidates running maybe

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tactical voting is a little more

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difficult but this does bring up one

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problem that the international media

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have in interpreting the Dutch elections

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which is that we're so used to dealing

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with a first past the poost system like

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the British and the Americans that we

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assume that oh vus has come second

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therefore he's lost it doesn't work like

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that in European system so he's gained

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tremendous support what uh role did the

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rather confected confrontation with

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turkey play did this help Rota uh appear

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tough on Islam tough on Muslims did he

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do it in a premeditated way to try and

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steal some of vor's clothes well the if

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we look at most of the media today we'll

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see that uh we'll see the claim that rut

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was able to ride on the back of this

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Turkish diplomatic incident to make

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himself look very statesmanlike very

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dignified calm cool and collected maybe

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it has helped his campaign and that he's

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been able to show the Dutch people that

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he is an effective politician bearing in

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mind that Rutter still has a lot of

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criticism towards his economic policies

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and his social policies in the

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Netherlands he's been able to ride on

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this diplomatic incident but he's not

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the only person who's benefited from it

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let's remember that his party has just

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lost eight seats vilda party has just

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gained five so as much as it has helped

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Mark Ruta it's also helped KES who has

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been able to appropriate this to put

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across his own message now The Biggest

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Loser was the labor party uh Jeremy

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Corbin is not the leader of the Dutch

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labor party but they've been effectively

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wiped out haven't they they have they

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have uh they've gone down from

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approximately uh 30 29 that's yeah yeah

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they've uh they've been eviscerated they

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still have a few strongholds left but

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that level of electoral defeat in a

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single day I don't think it marks the

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end of the Dutch labor party but it does

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uh see a similar to shift to what we've

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seen in at least the United Kingdom

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where the old left-wing socialist

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parties are no longer appealing well

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isn't the problem that they weren't

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left-wing socialist parties pasok was

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eviscerated in Greece the p psoe in

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Spain has been

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effectively uh blighted by the rise of

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demos M uh the Socialist Party in France

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is in such bad order that the president

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couldn't even run for a second term and

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Jeremy Corbin has around 26% in the

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polls in Britain which is five points

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down on Ed millerand in

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2015 are we seeing the sun setting on

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Social Democratic politics but the rise

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of other radical forces in their place

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this is inter uh an interesting way to

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interpret it now a lot of the left

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traditional leftwing socialist parties

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in Europe have been accused for the last

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few uh last few years of promoting

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austerity light of enacting the same

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policies as the old right-wing polic uh

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parties just with a slightly more

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sociable conscience to it what we are

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seeing is across Europe is arising

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people who are dissatisfied with the old

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status quo parties not just dissatisfied

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with the old conservative right and not

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just with the old socialist left but

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with the entire system which is

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increasingly interpreted by tens

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possibly hundreds of millions of

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Europeans as benefiting only a small

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transnational click while ignoring the

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majority of the populations of of

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European has the benefit of being the

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truth uh the rise of the green left tell

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us about them they came from absolutely

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nowhere they've suddenly appeared out of

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nowhere it would seem now I wonder

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whether the Green left's rise is going

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to be analog to what we saw with the

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liberal Democrats in Britain in the uh

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more recent elections that dissatisfied

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with existing parties but equally

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fearful of what appears to be uh a a

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raving ethnic nationalist in another

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party people have decided to throw their

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weight behind a new movement now it

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seems likely that the green left is

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going to be invited into rut's new

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Coalition uh so that he can draw support

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uh from people who have thrown their way

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that would be the kiss of death for them

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in my opinion but well it would in

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exactly the same way that it was the

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kiss of death for the liberal Democrats

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when they joined with the conservatives

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because as we've just seen in the last

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Coalition between the Dutch

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conservatives and the Dutch Labor uh rut

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was able to basically throw his partner

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under the bus in order to gain votes

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during the election now are we going to

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see the same thing with the green left

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are they more green or are they more

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left at the moment they seem to be more

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green and simply using this rhetoric

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will have a lot of appeal especially in

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a country like the Netherlands this is

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going to have a much greater appeal

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among young people among the urban uh

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Elites and especially in the Netherlands

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as we know this is an overwhelmingly

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urban country so they do seem to have

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this appeal to a large section of it

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helps that the leader the new leader is

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now like the Dutch Trudeau it does help

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it does help but does it also mean is it

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also possible that people's hopes are

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going to be somewhat dashed by this new

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leader we saw this happen with CER in

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Greece we saw this happen with the

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liberal Democrats maybe to a lesser

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extent we saw this with Bernie Sanders

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this points to me uh what is one of the

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most significant issues in this year of

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Elections it's the role of emotion it's

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not rational economic politics it's how

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people feel now if people are throwing

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their political hopes and emotions

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behind particular parties and then due

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to the reality of Coalition politics

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those parties maybe have to shift on

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their principles is people's

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00:11:23,399 --> 00:11:28,079
disappointment and disillusionment going

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to grow even further what happened

278
00:11:28,079 --> 00:11:32,200
yesterday in the Dutch election

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was not a victory for liberalism and it

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may mean that in the next round of Dutch

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elections in four or 5 years time we're

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00:11:36,839 --> 00:11:41,399
going to see even more people swinging

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towards a populist movement because

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00:11:41,399 --> 00:11:46,519
they'll feel disappointed by new part

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00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:48,519
new parties very briefly doct uh what

286
00:11:46,519 --> 00:11:50,880
does this tell us about France which is

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00:11:48,519 --> 00:11:52,720
next up and Germany which is up after

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00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:56,639
that I think it's going to be the case

289
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that Builders will be able to uh portray

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00:11:56,639 --> 00:11:59,760
himself as being a symbol against the

291
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establishment

292
00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:04,320
Elite Builders is going to if he's

293
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clever he's going to now take a backseat

294
00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:08,240
uh in Dutch politics and keep a low

295
00:12:06,079 --> 00:12:10,480
profile keep his uh just keep out of the

296
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public eye he's now in quite a strong

297
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position that while Rutter is trying to

298
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assemble a complicated Coalition vas and

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00:12:15,560 --> 00:12:20,240
his uh MPS can sit back and snipe at

300
00:12:18,399 --> 00:12:21,760
everything that the new government does

301
00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:23,040
without having to take any flak

302
00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:26,000
themselves because they don't have any

303
00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:29,519
power this is going to give uh an added

304
00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:32,079
incentive for the afd for Marine Le who

305
00:12:29,519 --> 00:12:34,920
will be able to point to vas saying he

306
00:12:32,079 --> 00:12:37,000
was repres he represents a large group

307
00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:39,399
of the Dutch electorate who are being

308
00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:42,360
ignored by the ostensibly arrogant

309
00:12:39,399 --> 00:12:45,160
mainstream parties so even if lepen

310
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loses in the election and even if afd

311
00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:48,680
which they're almost certainly going to

312
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:50,560
lose in the German elections even when

313
00:12:48,680 --> 00:12:52,920
that happens they can still point to vas

314
00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:55,399
and say we are in this position like

315
00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:57,880
Builders of being Martyrs so it will add

316
00:12:55,399 --> 00:13:00,120
to their strength well um I must ask you

317
00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:02,240
to come back and talk about both France

318
00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:04,519
and Germany we're all going to become

319
00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:06,720
very well acquainted with each other

320
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thank you Dr Russell Foster for coming

321
00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:12,079
on the Sputnik coming up next we will be

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discussing the little reported Yemen

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stay

324
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tuned welcome back to Sputnik the rocks

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of Aiden were Britain's Imperial Last

326
00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:27,600
Stand at least until the era of Tony

327
00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:30,240
Blair the British colony of Yemen fought

328
00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:33,000
itself free of Empire but seems to have

329
00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:34,519
been fighting a lot of the time since

330
00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:37,079
fighting between the south of the

331
00:13:34,519 --> 00:13:39,320
country and the North and civil war

332
00:13:37,079 --> 00:13:41,839
between the periphery and the center

333
00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:44,600
have now been succeeded by an allout

334
00:13:41,839 --> 00:13:47,279
assault by Saudi Arabia and its Western

335
00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:49,920
allies including Britain and the US on

336
00:13:47,279 --> 00:13:52,320
the poorest Arab country of them all

337
00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:54,880
British and Us weapons have rained down

338
00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:57,120
on schools and hospitals funerals and

339
00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:59,759
wedding parties killing thousands of

340
00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:02,519
civilians and prompting demands for an

341
00:13:59,759 --> 00:14:04,759
end to arm sales to the Saudi Invaders

342
00:14:02,519 --> 00:14:07,440
David Hurst is the distinguished writer

343
00:14:04,759 --> 00:14:09,199
and editor of much of the best commentry

344
00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:11,959
on the Middle East and is now

345
00:14:09,199 --> 00:14:14,560
editorinchief of Middle East eye and he

346
00:14:11,959 --> 00:14:18,320
joins us now David thanks for coming on

347
00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:20,959
board the Sputnik again what is the news

348
00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:23,240
from the front I need to ask you because

349
00:14:20,959 --> 00:14:27,680
frankly I it's not reported anywhere

350
00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:30,040
else well the uh the government of Yemen

351
00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:32,720
or rather the rump government of Yemen

352
00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:34,560
is now back in the South the houthis are

353
00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:38,199
in the north and in the center they

354
00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:40,480
still control uh much the biggest port

355
00:14:38,199 --> 00:14:44,279
and there's now going to be an allout

356
00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:45,759
Coalition assault on that port and what

357
00:14:44,279 --> 00:14:47,360
really is concerning me and is

358
00:14:45,759 --> 00:14:52,519
concerning a lot in the International

359
00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:55,000
Community is that Yemen is uh on the

360
00:14:52,519 --> 00:14:57,160
verge of a major famine exactly you've

361
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:58,839
got half a million children who are

362
00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:02,600
suffering from acute malnutrition you've

363
00:14:58,839 --> 00:15:05,639
got 7 million yemenis who are closer

364
00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:07,199
than ever to starvation and the Saudis

365
00:15:05,639 --> 00:15:10,519
and the Americans and the Brits are just

366
00:15:07,199 --> 00:15:13,839
about to uh close off the port now the

367
00:15:10,519 --> 00:15:19,360
port is really essential because uh 80

368
00:15:13,839 --> 00:15:21,320
to 90% of food goes through it so um yes

369
00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:24,839
that it's obviously a complicated Civil

370
00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:26,600
War and there are wrongs on both sides

371
00:15:24,839 --> 00:15:28,600
um I mean one of the figures behind of

372
00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,600
course the houthi uprising was the old

373
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:32,240
dictator

374
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:34,959
AB abdah so you know we're we're talking

375
00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:38,399
about a complex situation here but in

376
00:15:34,959 --> 00:15:41,079
terms of the human Devastation Yemen has

377
00:15:38,399 --> 00:15:43,880
never been treated as if it is a country

378
00:15:41,079 --> 00:15:46,880
it needs a major Aid influx it does not

379
00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:49,079
need another Siege the bombing uh has

380
00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:51,600
killed thousands but the famine could

381
00:15:49,079 --> 00:15:54,360
kill Millions yeah we've seen glimpses

382
00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:55,720
of it by very rare reports because I

383
00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:58,319
understand journalists are just not

384
00:15:55,720 --> 00:16:00,279
allowed access there and it looks really

385
00:15:58,319 --> 00:16:03,319
horrific well well the Middle East I was

386
00:16:00,279 --> 00:16:05,880
allowed access uh through the houthis to

387
00:16:03,319 --> 00:16:07,800
S and then to the north to Sada which is

388
00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:10,720
totally bombed out and that's on the

389
00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:14,680
Saudi border um and the devastation that

390
00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:16,880
we saw there was unbelievable we had uh

391
00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:19,000
doctors come up to us and say look

392
00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:21,920
babies are dying in my incubators

393
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:25,319
because uh um you know we can't get the

394
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:28,519
drugs uh it's all controlled by militias

395
00:16:25,319 --> 00:16:30,600
um and and as in all of these conflicts

396
00:16:28,519 --> 00:16:33,360
food distribution is also controlled by

397
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:35,560
militias so there are sieges within

398
00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:37,839
sieges uh and both sides are playing a

399
00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:40,639
very dirty game but the really important

400
00:16:37,839 --> 00:16:43,240
thing to emphasize here is that Britain

401
00:16:40,639 --> 00:16:45,199
is behind one of them yes I was going to

402
00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:47,600
ask you that you you used the word

403
00:16:45,199 --> 00:16:50,199
Coalition uh who's in this Coalition

404
00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:53,000
that's bombing and starving Yemen uh

405
00:16:50,199 --> 00:16:56,319
well principally the Saudis um and then

406
00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:58,079
America and then us uh and a whole bunch

407
00:16:56,319 --> 00:17:02,160
of countries who were basically armed

408
00:16:58,079 --> 00:17:05,079
suppliers to to the Saudis uh there was

409
00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:07,520
a very interesting court case in London

410
00:17:05,079 --> 00:17:09,880
recently which showed which gave you a

411
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:11,679
very rare glimpse of the relationship

412
00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:13,559
the arms relationship between Britain

413
00:17:11,679 --> 00:17:16,640
and Saudi Arabia and like all of these

414
00:17:13,559 --> 00:17:20,520
court cases it suddenly went secret you

415
00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:22,720
had two days of uh open testimony which

416
00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:25,880
was brought by the campaign against the

417
00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:28,000
arms trade uh it's a case which

418
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,880
basically in which they said they're

419
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,360
accusing the British government of

420
00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:33,640
completely failing to uphold their

421
00:17:31,360 --> 00:17:35,919
obligations under international human

422
00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:39,559
rights law and then suddenly on the

423
00:17:35,919 --> 00:17:41,000
third day uh it all went secret uh it

424
00:17:39,559 --> 00:17:43,039
went into camera and the journalists

425
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:45,960
were chucked out this is exactly what

426
00:17:43,039 --> 00:17:48,960
happened if you remember when there was

427
00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:52,400
a serious Fraud Office investigation

428
00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:54,080
into uh the AL Yama the AL yamama

429
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:56,240
exactly the same thing and then suddenly

430
00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:58,080
Tony Blair came down and said whoops

431
00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:00,799
this is a special relationship it's all

432
00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:02,679
secret it all went dead and he had a lot

433
00:18:00,799 --> 00:18:05,000
of angry policemen phoning the guardian

434
00:18:02,679 --> 00:18:07,120
up saying uh over our dead bodies but in

435
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:09,640
fact it happened exactly the same thing

436
00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:11,840
is happening now it's suddenly you get

437
00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:13,799
it to a stage of information and then

438
00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:16,360
suddenly whoops you run into a brick

439
00:18:13,799 --> 00:18:18,080
wall you see gy said uh that the reason

440
00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:21,039
for the media silence is that

441
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:23,679
journalists can't go in I don't buy that

442
00:18:21,039 --> 00:18:26,880
myself uh it seems to me there's a

443
00:18:23,679 --> 00:18:29,400
willful decision by the British State

444
00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:32,640
and therefore it's Echo chamber the

445
00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:34,720
so-called mainstream media that this

446
00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:38,679
special relationship with Saudi Arabia

447
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:41,640
is so embarrassing so shameful that it

448
00:18:38,679 --> 00:18:43,960
would be damaging to us as a state if

449
00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:47,120
people were to know about it but this

450
00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:49,480
court case did actually provides a rare

451
00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:51,919
glimpse into actually how many people

452
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:54,880
we've got uh including at the

453
00:18:51,919 --> 00:18:57,799
operational Center uh where where the

454
00:18:54,880 --> 00:19:00,120
targeting is done uh we we got 100 civil

455
00:18:57,799 --> 00:19:03,600
servants there in the command cell

456
00:19:00,120 --> 00:19:07,840
that's directing the war no in in in in

457
00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:11,200
Saudi Arabia uh uh as a whole but uh

458
00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:14,159
there is a a man of group Captain level

459
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:17,000
there who is is sitting in the

460
00:19:14,159 --> 00:19:20,159
operations room now the evidence that

461
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:21,600
came out in that court case was that um

462
00:19:20,159 --> 00:19:23,200
the Saudis are not giving us any

463
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,840
information about their targeting even

464
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:27,760
though uh they are using our weapons and

465
00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:29,360
they're using the the the worst

466
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:32,320
anti-personnel

467
00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:34,640
uh you know fragmentation bombs in it

468
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:36,799
and um they're not giving us the

469
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:41,480
information but we are certainly giving

470
00:19:36,799 --> 00:19:44,120
them the arms so um there's a and and

471
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:46,000
there are odd glimpses I mean uh there

472
00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:48,320
was one particularly honest Soul who

473
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:51,000
said you know in in his gut he didn't

474
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:54,480
think that we should continue to uh

475
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:59,520
carry out um this this arms trade the

476
00:19:54,480 --> 00:20:03,280
arms trade as such is incredi important

477
00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:06,120
to be AE it it's basically a Lifeline to

478
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:08,919
it uh there are 9,000 jobs dependent on

479
00:20:06,120 --> 00:20:11,039
it and we sent a reporter up to um to

480
00:20:08,919 --> 00:20:12,799
Lancashire to find out what the local

481
00:20:11,039 --> 00:20:15,320
feeling was including what the Trade

482
00:20:12,799 --> 00:20:16,559
union feeling was uh and they were

483
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:18,840
absolutely was like talking to

484
00:20:16,559 --> 00:20:20,520
government employees uh they were

485
00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:22,360
absolutely behind someone's got to do

486
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:24,000
this we uh we've got to do it otherwise

487
00:20:22,360 --> 00:20:26,120
there there are no jobs that begs

488
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:29,039
another question as to why the structure

489
00:20:26,120 --> 00:20:33,280
of the I'm not blaming workers Factory

490
00:20:29,039 --> 00:20:34,640
workers who need a a 440,000 wage no one

491
00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,919
in their right mind would would would

492
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:40,600
blame them what I'm what I'm pointing at

493
00:20:36,919 --> 00:20:42,400
is the system whereby our our aircraft

494
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:44,799
industry is so totally dependent on

495
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:46,600
weapons of mass destruction well it's

496
00:20:44,799 --> 00:20:48,480
unconscionable for the rest of us who

497
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:52,360
are not employed making weapons for

498
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:55,120
£40,000 a year that that can be a reason

499
00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:58,320
for continuing to supply weapons to

500
00:20:55,120 --> 00:21:01,120
anybody at all for any purpose at all no

501
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:04,320
civil society would knowingly willfully

502
00:21:01,120 --> 00:21:06,440
make a judgment that that should be so

503
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:09,520
thus it's my case that that that this

504
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:12,640
has to be all kept as quiet as possible

505
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:15,720
as you know as I do myself there's no

506
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:18,600
shortage of weapons in Yemen every Yemen

507
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:22,440
has many weapons they are actually quite

508
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:24,799
good Fighters nobody since Genghis can

509
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:26,919
uh has succeeded in subduing them

510
00:21:24,799 --> 00:21:29,240
including the British the argil and

511
00:21:26,919 --> 00:21:31,919
Southern Highlanders and the rocks of

512
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:35,880
Aiden this can't end well for the Saudis

513
00:21:31,919 --> 00:21:38,159
it seems to me um it can't end well

514
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:40,679
however uh if you actually look at

515
00:21:38,159 --> 00:21:42,279
what's going on in Saudi uh all the

516
00:21:40,679 --> 00:21:45,120
power virtually all the power is in the

517
00:21:42,279 --> 00:21:48,919
hands of one young man yeah 30 years old

518
00:21:45,120 --> 00:21:52,559
30 years old who has enormous power

519
00:21:48,919 --> 00:21:56,640
originally when the king took over um

520
00:21:52,559 --> 00:22:00,480
there was a division of power between uh

521
00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:02,520
between bin Salman and his uncle uh Ben

522
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:04,320
na but Ben na is basically who is the

523
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:07,240
Crown Prince has been basically cut out

524
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:09,279
of the picture and is now been Ben

525
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:12,159
Salman who has all the power and you

526
00:22:09,279 --> 00:22:14,440
just wonder what sort of advice he's

527
00:22:12,159 --> 00:22:16,080
getting he is the commander-in-chief

528
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:18,279
he's in charge of the economy he's also

529
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:21,320
in charge of the biggest selloff that

530
00:22:18,279 --> 00:22:23,840
Saudi Arabia has had all that all that

531
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:27,559
power in in in the hands of of of of one

532
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:29,360
man and um and what's Britain's role in

533
00:22:27,559 --> 00:22:31,679
all of this Britain Britain's role is

534
00:22:29,360 --> 00:22:33,000
basically to sort of feed the monster

535
00:22:31,679 --> 00:22:34,360
and they will say well if we don't do it

536
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:37,200
the French will of course the French

537
00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:40,159
would do that but that's not an argument

538
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:42,080
for continuing with this system so um at

539
00:22:40,159 --> 00:22:43,640
some point we've just got to say what

540
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:46,400
are we doing to Yemen what are we doing

541
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:49,360
to the people is we protecting them is

542
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:52,080
it possible David that this Yemen War

543
00:22:49,360 --> 00:22:55,000
could be a harbinger of the of the

544
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:57,200
downfall of the Saudi uh

545
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:59,200
regime

546
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,679
well um

547
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:03,120
I'm I'm not a forecaster I just don't

548
00:23:01,679 --> 00:23:05,919
know how long these processes are going

549
00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:09,840
to last I believe in the Arab Spring I

550
00:23:05,919 --> 00:23:12,559
believe in a process whereby uh there is

551
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:14,559
a democratic Uprising uh which will

552
00:23:12,559 --> 00:23:16,520
knock out the dictators of the gulf

553
00:23:14,559 --> 00:23:18,000
including a of Assad I just don't know

554
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,919
when that's going to happen I think

555
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:22,919
we're in for a very very long and bumpy

556
00:23:19,919 --> 00:23:24,039
process but I think that there are I

557
00:23:22,919 --> 00:23:26,320
mean the other thing you've got to think

558
00:23:24,039 --> 00:23:28,760
of is that for the first time there is

559
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:31,480
poverty in Saudi Arabia right we're just

560
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:33,039
about to run a big series on uh uh on

561
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:36,279
that people are going to be taxed for

562
00:23:33,039 --> 00:23:38,840
the first time in Saudi Arabia now how

563
00:23:36,279 --> 00:23:40,360
long before the penny drops and you have

564
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:43,039
for their own people for their own

565
00:23:40,360 --> 00:23:44,840
people and and you and you have a people

566
00:23:43,039 --> 00:23:47,640
that actually says well hang on a moment

567
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:50,440
if the King goes off on a on a on a

568
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:52,240
flurry to Indonesia and takes 500 tons

569
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,880
of luggage with him what's there left

570
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,799
for me what is actually going to we

571
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:58,480
always think of Saudi Arabia as a rich

572
00:23:55,799 --> 00:24:00,200
country actually it's got extreme

573
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,919
inequality of wealth when is that going

574
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:04,200
to start filtering through when are we

575
00:24:01,919 --> 00:24:07,520
going to start having more demands for

576
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:10,600
for women's rights for for basic

577
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:12,679
Democratic participation well uh when it

578
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:15,440
starts we'll read it in the Middle East

579
00:24:12,679 --> 00:24:17,320
ey first before we see it on the BBC

580
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,770
that's for sure David Hurst thanks for

581
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:21,480
joining us on the

582
00:24:18,770 --> 00:24:23,559
[Music]

583
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:25,640
Sputnik and now it's your turn to tell

584
00:24:23,559 --> 00:24:28,640
us what you think through the portals of

585
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:30,080
social media once rattling gri so Dutch

586
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,679
elections Dutch elections Dutch

587
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:34,039
elections and this morning my friend

588
00:24:31,679 --> 00:24:37,000
asked me are you relieved and I am not

589
00:24:34,039 --> 00:24:39,159
actually because wers came TW second

590
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:41,360
second largest party and on Twitter

591
00:24:39,159 --> 00:24:43,159
smoking hand says the left have been

592
00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:45,919
responsible for this they have never

593
00:24:43,159 --> 00:24:48,399
listened to people's legitimate concerns

594
00:24:45,919 --> 00:24:50,919
whereas truth Seeker says Europe might

595
00:24:48,399 --> 00:24:53,080
be finally waking up the US and the UK

596
00:24:50,919 --> 00:24:54,120
were talked about as warnings and the

597
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:57,039
Dutch

598
00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:59,760
responded well I think the last analysis

599
00:24:57,039 --> 00:25:01,919
is frankly wrong

600
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:05,520
I'm only half convinced by the first

601
00:25:01,919 --> 00:25:08,039
certainly the Dutch labor party has been

602
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:10,360
wiped out and I don't believe dut new

603
00:25:08,039 --> 00:25:13,320
labor yeah yeah it's the Dutch Blair

604
00:25:10,360 --> 00:25:15,320
party and they will never come back just

605
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:17,600
like pasok in Greece will never come

606
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:20,320
back and the Socialist Party in Spain

607
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:23,279
will never come back and unless labor in

608
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:25,320
Britain H moves sharply there's a real

609
00:25:23,279 --> 00:25:27,279
danger of the same thing happening to

610
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:29,640
them well that's all the tweets we have

611
00:25:27,279 --> 00:25:31,360
time for today which alas means that's

612
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,360
the end of the show but you can stay in

613
00:25:31,360 --> 00:25:36,720
touch with us on social media on Twitter

614
00:25:33,360 --> 00:25:38,760
and Instagram rtor Sputnik or Facebook

615
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:40,760
Sputnik on Russia today it's goodbye

616
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:44,799
from me gatri and from me George

617
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,799
Galloway it's been marvelous

618
00:25:48,510 --> 00:25:51,569
[Music]

619
00:25:54,610 --> 00:25:58,010
[Music]